Risking self-incrimination, 90-year-old pastor Barbara Taylor continued giving evidence in the trial of pastor Brian Houston, founder of Hillsong Church who is being charged with failure to report the crimes of his pedophile father, Frank Houston to police.
Barbara Taylor, the pastor of a small church in Western Sydney was the person the mother of Frank Houston’s Australian victim Brett Sengstock confided in. She kept it confidential until Sengstock’s mother Rose Haminghan confided in a travelling evangelist, Kevin Mudford, during a crusade at Taylor’s church.
Taylor is being asked about her knowledge of the crimes committed against Sengstock, the same crimes Brian Houston is accused of failing to report. She could have objected to giving evidence, in which case magistrate Gareth Christofi would have given her a certificate that would have protected her from self-incrimination. But she has declined to make an objection.
Defence barrister Phillip Boulten SC told Taylor he would test her memory. He did, taking her through the events of 1999 when Frank Houston’s crimes were disclosed to her.
Boulten took Taylor through notes she wrote of the timeline. While Taylor had kept Rose’s disclosure of her son’s experiences secret, as soon as Kevin Mudford was told the question of taking it further had been raised.
Referring to Taylor’s note from November 4, 1999, Boulton asked “Your note says ‘Kevin went to Brett’s and spoke to him privately. Brett was shocked.’ Did you go to see Pastor John McMartin the same day?”
Taylor: “I honestly don’t remember.”
Boulten “Is it the case that you, Kevin Medford and John McMartin decided it all had to come out?”
Taylor “I honestly don’t remember.”
Taylor was resolute in sticking to what she had written down, but in general unable to recall things not included in her notes, letters and transcripts of evidence at the Royal Commission. She would often say “If I wrote it it was right.’
Asked if she had told Brett’s mother Rose about fearing Kevin Mudford would tell someone else, she replied “I don’t know.”
Boulten then took her to a passage in Rose’s diary from 8th November 1999, regarding a call from Taylor about having seen Brett Sengstock. “He wants to know if Kevin will tell someone else”, and Boulten asked “Now that you read that did it jog your memory?”
Taylor “No, but if Rose wrote it I would say it is right.”
Taylor was taken through her notes regarding attempting to have Sengstock and Frank Houston meet. Boulten challenged her on whether Frank Houston had made a phone call rather than fail to turn up to a meeting.
Boulten: “It looks like you rang Frank, then Frank rang back.’
Taylor: “Looks like there was a meeting set up and Frank did not show up. That’s why I wrote ‘amnesia’”.
Asked again, Taylor responded: “That is my best attempt to re-create something that happened 25 years ago.”
Taylor was also taken through what she had told pastor John McMartin who was on the state executive of the Assemblies of God in a meeting on Sept 16, 1999
Boulten said to Taylor: “That was the first time you had told John McMartin that Frank Houston was the perpetrator?”
Taylor “Yes”
Afterwards in a letter to Rose, Taylor wrote that McMartin had said “the Assemblies of God has a structure in place that will deal with such matters if they have a written complaint with time and place.”
Boulten “That was part of the dilemma you had. Brett would not put anything in writing?“ Taylor: “Yes”.
Boulten: “Brett did not want to engage with the process?”
Taylor: “Yes.”
Boulten “Rose told you by this stage Brett was so sick of the matter that he would deny it?”
Taylor “Yes”
Boulten: “By November 26 was he interested in putting anything in writing?”
Taylor: “Yes he was not interested.
At this point, Brian Houston is involved. Looking at Taylor’s notes, Boulten asked “this is November 28, 1999. Is it the date you, John McMartin and Brian Houston all met on or about that date?”’ “
Taylor: “Yes.”
Taylor agrees that Brian Houston told them his father had confessed to him about one incident of sexual abuse. Brian Houston said he would stand his father down from preaching. Taylor told them that there was some chance Sengstock would go to court.
At this point Boulten got Taylor to contradict her Royal Commission testimony, asking her if she had suggested the Assembly of God’s national executive should handle the matter. She said she would not have done that. Boulten then takes her to her Royal Commission evidence in which she said “I think I suggested the executive should handle it. I was a bit forward.”
Pressed she says: “If I said that at the Royal Commission, it would have been right.”
At the bottom of one of her notes from that time Taylor lists people she believes knew of the allegations. These include senior ministers in the Assemblies of God on the national executive Andrew Evans, Wayne Alcorn and Jim Williams. Pressed for a source Taylor says that she heard it on the grapevine. People ring me and tell me things even though I pastor a small church.”
Finally, Taylor was asked about a conversation with Brian Houston. Did he tell her that Kevin Mudford had rung Hillsong with the allegation? Taylor: “Maybe”. But she was clear that Brian Houston had told her about the restoration processes his father was going through, in a conversation in mid-2000.
Aghajanian on the stand
George Aghajanian, the Hillsong General Manger was the next witness. He made a formal objection to giving evidence and was given a certificate protecting him from self-incrimination.
He had been in a similar role since beginning in 1994 at the Hills Christian Life Centre. He testified that he had received a phone call from Kevin Mudford in October 1999 (the call that Barbara Taylor could not quite recall.)
“He started to make allegations against Frank Houston. He started to make allegations that we knew and were covering it up. But I told him we did not know about it and we would investigate it.”
He took it to Brian at a regular business meeting he had with Brian Houston that afternoon.
“Brian was shocked. I don’t think he had heard anything about it.”
“He did not give me any impression he had any prior knowledge.”
Later Brian Houston told him his father had confessed and that he had admitted the allegation. The next steps were to stand his father down from preaching, revoke his ministerial credential and “escalate it to the ACC.
Aghajanian recalled receiving two letters of resignation from Frank Houston. One resigning as senior pastor in March 2000 and another resigning as elder and board member.
Harrison: “Do you know if the allegation was taken to the police?”
Aghajanian: “No it was not”
Then came a crucial question, which was objected to by the defence.
“Would it have been your responsibility to report it to the police?” Magistrate Gareth Christofi responded to an objection by the defence saying “I don’t think the crown was asking as a legal matter. If there’s any confusion it can be dealt with by cross-examination.”
“I received an allegation,” Aghajanian said. “It was passed to my boss Brian Houston and it was escalated to the ACC, whose responsibility it would have been.”
At an Elders meeting for Sydney Christian Life Centre, Aghajanian was present with Nabi Saleh to support Brian although he was not a member of the city church board. The special meeting had been called to deal with “Frank Houston’s apparent moral failure.”
The meeting was told that the Assemblies of God required a “signed admission of guilt”, and this “could not be considered until legal advice had been obtained.” A retirement package for Frank Houston was agreed and a “simple statement of Frank’s retirement would be sufficient.”
Asked whether the church reported anything to the NSW Commission for Young People, Aghajanian answered “We were unfamiliar with the new legislation that had come out and its relevance to a thirty-year-old historical matter.”
Beginning his cross-examination Phillip Boulten SC asked what reputation Frank Houston had. “One of being a very Godly man, a father in the faith and so highly regarded.”
Aghajanian was quizzed about not being able to find his notes for the “fateful phone call.”
“We looked in 2014 [for the Royal Commission] and recently, we could not find my contemporaneous notes.”
Asked how he came up with an October date for the phone call. Was it based on Brian Houston’s diaries? “Possibly.” Aghajanian said that as an elder he and the other 8 or 10 elders would have discussed the allegations.