“Will the Pope go to Heaven” asked the Facebook blurb for the Pastors’ Heart podcast special episode following the death of Pope Francis.
But did Leonardo di Chirico, pastor of the Church Brecca di Roma, Rachel Ciano who lectures in Christianity and History at Sydney Missionary and Bible College, and host Dominic Steele answer the question?
Well not directly. The Other cheek has carefulky checked the transcript. But, maybe, indirectly.
Di Chirico has a PhD is from King’s College (London) that was published as Evangelical Theological Perspectives on Post-Vatican II Roman Catholicism, and believes that while Roman Catholicism uses the right words it does not embrace the biblical gospel. An earlier Pastors Heart episode “Same Word’s Different Meanings” features Di Chirico making the point that while Catholics and Protestants use the same words, they can have different meanings.
“Transubstantiation or immaculate conception of Mary, these are not biblical words or Christian words, these are Catholic words. But as far as the 90% of the vocabulary is concerned, the words are the same. Sin, grace, cross Jesus gospel, salvation, faith, and hope, and we could go on and on and on. The problem is that they’re meant in a very different way because their meaning is not taken from the Bible as the ultimate authority, the ultimate authority and the ultimate interpreter of itself.”
Rachel Ciano, who teaches Christian history at Sydney Missionary and Bible College said in the same episode “One of the difficult things in the Catholic system is that it is not founded on Scripture alone.”
And podcast host Dominic Steele, Angliacn minister at Village church, Annandale had a powerful conversion experience in leaving his Catholic background.
For all three speakers, “Catholicalism at best obscures the gospel. At worst, it distorts it.” as di Chirico puts it. They want to emphasise difference for Gospel reasons, and they believe evangelicals have dropped the ball on that. In their eyes too many of us downplay the difference.
But back to the Pope.
The question of whether Pope Francis is in Heaven is not raised in so many words on the pastors’ heart ep titled with that query. But a section the starts with the issue of downplaying difference does come close.
Steele asked Ciano, “Rachel, I have been surprised at the reaction here of, and not just here, but around the blogospheres that I’ve read, people of different Protestants wanting compassionately to express grief about the death of Francis and yet wanting to acknowledge him as a Christian brother… What’s your reaction when you see that online?”
She sees Francis as very good at using language to build bridges. “In a way it makes sense that they’re calling on Pope Francis as a brother because Pope Francis has been very skillful during his papacy at using the language of brotherhood. He’s encyclical where all brothers and his joy of the gospel evangelic guardian use language that’s very inclusive, very Catholic, very universal, very embracing to try and call people essentially back to Rome by calling them brothers and inviting them in.”
Commenting that differences are being downplayed, Steele turns to di Chirico:
“So Leonardo, could you just help me here? The Roman Catholic Church teaches indulgences and it’s the Pope who actually in the end, ministers the indulgences. And so by definition, unless the pope were to repudiate indulgences, he cannot be a justification by faith alone person.”
Di Chrici agreed. “No. Actually his last public engagement was an offering of an indulgence, the Urbi et Orbi [to the city and to the world] benediction on Easter Day, the last time he became visible and showed up. In granting that blessing, he gave an indulgence to all the people, not only were present there in St. Peter Square, but also to all those who would receive it via television and digital means. And so the whole theology of indulgences contradicts the basic understanding of justification by faith alone. And we’re back to the controversies in the 16th century. And in that sense, Rome hasn’t changed. And Pope Francis, although he would often talk about grace, faith, it never really changed, not only his mind, but also more importantly the teaching of the Catholic church with regards to justification by faith. Rome is not committed to the doctrine of justification by faith alone, still committed to this view whereby grace is necessary, but not in itself. Sufficient faith is necessary but not sufficient. And so everything else flows out of this confusion.”
Steele: “And if I’m relying on an indulgence, then I’m not trusting in Christ alone for my salvation and I can’t actually have a guarantee of myself making it to heaven?
Di Circa: “Yeah, that’s true. You are actually, the idea is that you have to be purified before entering heaven. And purification entails your works, your paying of the price of your temporal sins. And so Christ’s work is not sufficient. God’s grace is not sufficient and the gift of faith is not sufficient. You are supposed to do something to supplement what God has done for you. So in this sense, the whole theology of indulgences defies the sufficiency of the work of Christ and the sufficiency of God’s grace for our salvation.”
It is shocking to Protestant ears the indulgences still persist in Catholicism. But there are several steps in the logic we need to explore before we conclude that Catholics do not get to eternal life on the basis of faith.
Because with indulgences we get purgatory. Another term with medieval overtones to non-Catholics.
Quoting Pope Paul VI, the Catechism of the Catholic Church provides a definition. “An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints.”
This is a complex doctrine that takes up a few pages of that catechism – and here the criticism that the Catholic Church obscures the gospel is merited.
Purgatory, an intermediate stage between life on earth and heaven, where people pay for sins is why Catholics believe in indulgences – they operate like a get out of jail card in Monopoly and are granted by the church.
Most sins it is expected would be confessed, and dealt with in a sacrament called penance where someone might be asked to perform prayers or fast as an nact of repentance. Purgatory, in effect, deals with unconfessed sin at the end of life on Earth.
But, note in the quoted definition of indulgences, that the punishment is called “temporal”, and remissions brought about through indulgences, affect “sins whose guilt has already been forgiven.”
Before indulgences are applied, the sin has already been forgiven.
This strains the protestant mind. But purgatory and indulgences may be thought of as a detour on the way to heaven. To us protestants, an imaginary detour.
But behind the scaffolding of Catholic ritual persist the idea that it is through the death of Christ that we can have eternal life.
That the hope is in Jesus’ death and resurrection was expressed by Pope Francis in hus last speech, the Urbi et Orbi speech di Chirico referenced: “In the passion and death of Jesus, God has taken upon himself all the evil in this world and in his infinite mercy has defeated it. He has uprooted the diabolical pride that poisons the human heart and wreaks violence and corruption on every side. The Lamb of God is victorious! That is why, today, we can joyfully cry out: “Christ, my hope, has risen!”
“The resurrection of Jesus is indeed the basis of our hope. For in the light of this event, hope is no longer an illusion. Thanks to Christ – crucified and risen from the dead – hope does not disappoint! Spes non confundit! (cf. Romans 5:5). That hope is not an evasion, but a challenge; it does not delude, but empowers us.”
Was the pospe using these words differently to the rest of us?
The Urbi and Orbi traditionally does include other elements that protestants protest. There are prayers that ask saints to intercede for us – very Catholic. The prays finish with “May the almighty and merciful Lord grant you indulgence, absolution and the remission of all your sins, a season of true and fruitful penance, a well-disposed heart, amendment of life, the grace and comfort of the Holy Spirit and final perseverance in good works.”
We say a confession every week in the Sydney Anglican church I attend. And often afterwards we are reminded of I John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.”.
We rest on scripture rather than a proclamation of the church. Although a mnister might say
“As high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is God’s love towards those who fear him;
as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us,
in Jesus Christ our Lord.”
– adapting Psalm 103.
Confessing of sin, and declaring the promises of scripture is Biblical. The Catholic method invoking sainsts and priestly authority is cumbersome, unecesseary, and contains false doctrine as this protestant undersatnds it.. But finally relies on Christ it seems to me.
So without peering into the soul of the recently departed Pope Francis, would it be better to say, that according to Catholic doctrine he has a detour on the way to the Heavenly Father, he may well have had a saving faith.
And as Francis once said who are we to judge?